The Everyday Christian
Some guy named Tom has a blog called “The Everyday Christian”, which I find myself frequenting as of late. There’s a bunch of red state stuff and Reformed theology.
Basically, the guy has the worldview I had 5 years ago, and I’ll occasionally comment to try to convert him away from American Orthodox Conservatism (or maybe just to play devil’s advocate).
Thanks for visiting my site. I don’t necessarily agree with your opinions but I welcome the debate.
Comment by Tomn | 14 October 2007
Just curious….What are you trying to convert me to? What worldview do you now have?
Comment by TOM | 15 October 2007
Chinese unorthodox liberalism im guessing?jk.
Comment by l3rucewayne | 15 October 2007
Or….realism.
Comment by annie | 16 October 2007
@Tom: The “convert” comment was tongue-in-cheek.
For most of my life, I’ve been exposed 90% of the time to the same kind of belief system. In short, sum the beliefs of Limbaugh, Hannity, Southern Baptists, etc., take the average and you’ve pretty much got it.
Not that the entire belief system is wrong, but I think it has its blind spots and misses shades of grey.
A great example is affirmative action, which mainline conservatives reflexively reject. An argument would roughly run something like “Affirmative action is a program of race-based preferences, and treating people based on race is wrong. It’s been hundreds of years since slavery and the civil rights movement did its job, so AA no longer performs a useful role.”
I believed this way without thinking about it…or better yet, I thought about it, but never seriously considered how pro-affirmative action people would respond. The response might be something like “The lot of blacks may be improving, but despite the civil rights movement, many blacks still experience racism in their everyday lives. Black kids tend to go to worse schools, so start out at a disadvantage. The government should step in to level that playing field.”
Now, the conversative view may be correct (or more correct), but if so, I no longer think it’s obviously true.
My worldview? I’m rather agnostic about a LOT of subjects. You might say I’m a practicalist who prefers to answer “What’s the most effective course of action now?” rather than theoretical right/wrong (although that’s important as well).
Comment by Donnie | 16 October 2007
Donnie,
Interesting. I guess I just don’t understand NOT focusing first and foremost on what is right and sticking to it no matter what the cost. Some would say this makes me insensitive or naive and that may be so although I truly hope not but we have to take a stand. And since we do have to take a stand, why not fight the battles now instead of putting them off until later.
Comment by TOM | 16 October 2007
Hi Tom - in my personal experience the challenge with “sticking to it no matter what the cost” is that sometimes, you discover through more experience that you were in fact wrong, and the costs were high and incurred as a result of bullheadedness, not some more admirable trait. I’m addressing myself here (I haven’t visited your blog and don’t know which issues you feel strongly about, so this is genuinely not an attempt at indirect criticism). At any rate as a result of having burned some people quite badly (including myself) I now take a more tempered approach to many issues.
I believe this is what my parents referred to as “learning the hard way”
Comment by Derek Slater | 16 October 2007
@Tom: It’s more that I see fewer black and white battles now than before. It’s very important to stand up for what’s right, but I think a lot of what’s viewed as clear moral issues aren’t quite so.
Example: Child pornography is one of those moral black and white issues. There’s no reason for people not to be reviled by it. But what about adult pornography where all parties are participating voluntarily?
Clearly, the Bible would teach against it (per Jesus, lust = fornication). Then again, there was a recent study done that claimed males who viewed porn were less likely to commit sexual crimes, probably because those men had some place to outlet (er…so to speak).
Granted, one study does not the truth reveal. I’m not sure how edifying pornography is for a society, and don’t view it myself. But based on the information I have, there’s no clear correlation between porn and increased sexual crimes, and may in fact be the reverse.
OK, so I’ve gotten a bit far afield. But the point is that on many subjects, one can’t focus on what’s morally right because the subjects don’t lend themselves to a clear right/wrong answer.
[EDIT]
@Derek: A great observation; this is something that I’ve noticed a lot of the last five years.
Comment by Donnie | 16 October 2007
These “grey spots” encompass a plethora of subjects, from abortion to pornography to homosexuality to cheating on a test.
As a Christian, I do not understand the need to condemn and corral. We condemn people for not following this arcane “how to be good” list and we corral people into “us” and “them”. In our misguided attempts to make people “upright”, we’ve become crooked ourselves. *sigh* Let the brimstone hail!
Comment by annie | 16 October 2007
Donnie,
I have always seen things as essentially black and white. I think we create the grey areas ourselves by not being willing to point out right from wrong (I am guilty of this also). As you can imagine this sometimes makes people uncomfortable around me (especially my wife and kids…lol).
I will agree, though, that sometimes it is harder to categorize some things as right or wrong. This comes from our own fallibility. We should always strive to see things as God does…righteous (right) or unjust (wrong). He did not see any grey.
Comment by Tom | 16 October 2007
Annie said
I think you misunderstand. Christians are not supposed to condemn…that is God’s job. Our responsibility is only to proclaim His word. He will condemn those who reject it. We are only to love others and be obedient to His commands.
Next, it is God who separates people. He does this by placing some into the Elect and the rest into the non-Elect. It is He who sanctifies (sets apart). We can set no-one apart for God…it is all His doing. If we are trying to make someone “upright” then we will always fail. He will never fail.
Comment by Tom | 16 October 2007
l;et me firs tsay i am a christian. second i have drank a bottle of wine. Christian sare NOT supoosef to do A LOT of thngs but we still do. comdemnding is one of them, take a look at what we say about gays and abortion.
I just think that if we did a little more accpeting and a little less comdemning we’d be ok. Leavce te condemning up to God, wher eit belogns. nmot to say being gay is RIGHt, it’ snot right. but. it’s not really a hukman’s place to say it’s not right now is it? I don’t undetstaing it, i can’t imagine anyone else would either. evemn gays.
I agree, God will never fail. bbut. we do., continously.
Comment by annie | 16 October 2007
@Tom: We could go on for a while like this! In any case, I look forward to future conversations and some games on FICS.
@Annie: It’s probably too much to expect the correct conjugation of “i have drank” after a bottle of wine.
Comment by Donnie | 17 October 2007
Well, if I or other Christians believe the Bible is the word of God, then it is hard to deny its explicit condemnation of homosexuality, and good arguments can be made against abortion. besides that i feel sorry for many out there who have gotten abortions due to pressures of life or something else, only to end up feeling horrible about what they have done in the future. I dont think the Church should pounce on them but should help and care for them with the love of Christ. Also good arguments can be made that we need to confront things we strongly believe to be wrong with love and often a great deal of seriousness. I agree things are black and white but sometimes our imperfection at figuring out which is which makes things seem grey. Annie why are you drinking is something getting you down?
Comment by l3rucewayne | 18 October 2007
Tell it to the Christians who condemn. Tell it to Limbaugh, tell it to Hannity, tell it to O’Reilly.
I think the world would be a much better place if Christians worked with minds engaged. American Orthodox Conservatism has no chance in that case — but who wants to think seriously about education, health care, race and equal opportunity, science, and economics?
Comment by Ed Darrell | 20 October 2007
*sigh* I’m not down 13ruce, just had a REALLY bad day. no more wine for awhile. Hubby has thrown out the other bottle we had. I’m typically a pretty happy person. Ask Donnie.
And, well said. God has only commanded us to try not to sin, He never asked us to hate in His name. That said, you won’t find me at a gay pride rally, but nor will I cease to love my gay friends.
Ed - I declare that the dolts you cited above do NOT represent the majority of Christians, though their exposure makes it appear otherwise. Please ignore them like you ignore infomercials, spam email, and Ann Coulter. They are worth about as much.
Comment by annie | 20 October 2007
Happy to here thats all it was:-) your husband sounds like a cool guy.(donnie isnt your husband is he? i would have thought id have thought about that possibility before now if that were the case…)
Comment by l3rucewayne | 21 October 2007
I’m tired of responding to this thread.
@Ed: Love the blog name.
@Annie: First, Derek wonders if I’m engaged to Caroline, then l3rucewayne asks if we’re married. This is too rich.
@l3rucewayne: As good of a friend as Annie is, I’m not sure how well I’d handle her as a wife.
Comment by Donnie | 21 October 2007